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In this episode, Oron chat with Deb about the feelings that many of us have, that our beautiful pets don’t live long enough. They also talk about connecting to our loved ones that have died and using them as an inside track for universal guidance and wisdom! They also talked personal responsibility and how to deal with people rejecting either us or our choices. This was an awesome conversation and I hope you love it as much as I did. Here’s Oron and Deb.
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Pets die too soon [00:00:20]
Departed loved ones + access to wisdom [00:08:52]
Personal responsibility [00:15:28]
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Transcript
Oron: We are here and ready.
Debi: Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you, Oron and Medha. I want to start off the bat with something that's fresh and up in my life; I would like to ask you about our journey with animals, you know, pets, which are more than pets, they're more like family members, four-legged babies. Because I lost - do you lose a pet? - my cat of 17 years passed away this week, and they don't live long enough, and the relationship we have with them is quite extraordinary. Can you talk more about that and about loss?
Oron: Medha took longer to connect in with us now than she usually does because her heart was resonating with your heart. Her personality is also of the opinion that your beloved angels that come to you in pet form do not live long enough. And she railed for the longest time against her conception of God or the Universe and also us about the fact that it's not right, that it shouldn't be that way. But you will find that your animals do not agree with your opinion, and they are making a choice in the moment. And they are here to show you so many things. They show you playfulness, they show you presence, they show you unconditional love. They show you detachment and ease of letting go. They are not hanging on and holding on in the way that you imagine that they might be or in the way that you are to them. And Medha has learnt that is entirely possible to stay completely connected to those beings, even when they are not in physical form. They never leave you. They are a part of you. You are connected. But it is when you are deeply mired in your feeling of grief and your feeling of - the word you used is loss, which is how you perceive of it - you feel as though you have lost them. But you have only - we will use your word - lost them in the physical in that you cannot physically hug them in the same way that you did previously. But they are just as available to you and in some ways more. As Medha moved through her very intense grief over the loss of her dogs - which to her it was ridiculous and unfair that they died within a week of each other from unrelated causes - she had to face her deepest fear, and she very much struggled through it. But as she started to move through the grief and the loss - which also helped her to clear out some old unshed tears that she had been carrying for a long time, which is similar to what is happening with you and most of you - as she moved through that grieving process, she became able to sense her beloved friends with her when she went to places that she was not allowed to take them in the physical. She could feel them with her at the hairdresser, in the library, in places where dogs are simply not allowed. And she started to conceive and feel and experience the fact that the connection never ends and that it deepens. But it only deepens in your experience, if you allow the consciousness to allow the experience. They feel connected to you always. You sometimes decide that they are no longer available to you because you cannot see them in the physical. But sometimes you will feel out of the corner of... you will see out of the corner of your eye a movement that you think is your pet, particularly at the start when you are just getting used to the change in their energetics from physical to more energetic form. And they are there. They are always there. When you think of them, know that they are with you. They haven't gone anywhere. And think about this: there were many times where you are not physically in contact with your cat and you felt connected. You did not have to be physically touching them to feel that incredible love flowing both from you and to you. That experience is still available. They haven't gone anywhere. They have just changed form. And it is the same with your humans.
Debi: Thank you. That's a really beautiful reminder of what is really real. The love is real and stays.
Oron: The love is real. The love is real. The love is real. The love is real. The love is real. The love is real. And the love is never ending. The love is never ending. Feel into your heart in this moment and feel the reality of the love. Has it gone anywhere?
Debi: Nope.
Oron: Does it feel real?
Debi: Yep.
Oron: Does it feel like something can come and cause an end to it?
Debi: No.
Oron: So that is your lived, known experience. You can play with that.
Debi: Thank you. I sure will and I'm greatly moved and in gratitude for this insight and shift in awareness. Oh, so...
Oron: We have a message for you from your cat.
Debi: Oh. Yes, please.
Oron: Be playful. Don't get heavy. Remember the fun times and remember the cat's ability to just play and be. And when something is annoying, show its annoyance and then move on. Be like the cat. It wants you lit up, it does not want you sad. So what you wish for your cat, know that it wishes that for you. You wish for the best for it, it wishes the best for you. So just circumnavigate the dance and wish it for yourself also, directly.
Debi: Thank you. Sounds spot on.
Oron: What did you say?
Debi: Sounds spot; to be playful.
Oron: We try to be spot on. It helps.
Debi: It does help. Oh, and playful by the looks of it.
Oron: We just showed you our playful side.
Debi: Oh, thank you. I feel lighter instantly. I have...
Oron: We will say one more thing, and this applies to pets and this applies to humans who have, as you call it, passed on. You can still talk to them. You can still communicate with them. You can still ask them things and your cat has got a wisdom that is available that can help to guide you going forward in your life. You may conceive of it as being a guardian angel. You can commune with it in ways that you didn't previously. Before, you may not have asked your cat what you should do about your current job situation, which you are not enjoying. But your cat is now infinitely connected to the wisdom of the universe. And because you have a special, energetic heart-base connection with your cat, you can now choose to focus through the prism of your cat, the wisdom of the universe and call it towards you. You can now have chats with your cat and get guidance in a way that you have never conceived of before.
Debi: Wow.
Oron: You have an insider. That's the feeling that you're going to have inside of yourself. You have an insider in the angelic realm. Think of it like that.
Debi: Wonderful. Yeah, my first response was that he's a purr-angel.
Oron: Yes.
Debi: Oh, yeah. Another thing shifted in my heart just hearing that. Thank you.
Oron: Whether you are feeling it or whether you are not, know that she is always in your heart. Sometimes the grief will come up and that is appropriate. Allow it to pass. Do not block it, do not reject it. And in those moments when you can't feel that she is with you, when she feels like she is lost, that is okay. Move through that. Allow that, flow with that. But still remind yourself that just because you can't feel the cat in that moment, it does not mean that you do not have contact and connection to the cat in that moment. You have connection to the cat always. You sometimes just are not connected to your connection.
Debi: Not connected to the connection, yeah. So speaking of connection, I would like to move on to another question which touches as well on the grief and loss in a slightly different way. I have returned to the place I grew up in, to my family after a quarter of a century away and two different countries. And it's been a process and lots of grief came up. And what I sense is that it is not only personal, but it's more what we call generational trauma. So do you.. can you speak more to that? Because it feels like I needed to clear more than is just... that it doesn't feel like it's just me. And I'm going through, it's quite an intense process and I would like some wisdom on that.
Oron: You do not ever need to clear or heal more than what is yours. Give us a moment. Particularly when you are a very sensitive person, it is easy to be somewhat sponge-like in your connection to the energetics of those around you. So if you imagine a sponge that comes and sits on top of a puddle of water, it absorbs things into it. When that is your state, that is really in some ways a helpful exchange of energy. Because as you collect things, if you then do the work to clear them out of your system, it can be easier to do it when you have a sense that it is somewhat not yours. There is a sense of detachment that gives you a helpful perspective. So if that is the case for you, if you feel that as you clear the trauma, you are given a sense of perspective that allows you to think more clearly when you consider it additional to yours and not just yours, then feel free to do that. But if you are picking up things that are not necessarily yours to clean for the sake of the collective, if that is a conceptualization that you are carrying and therefore enacting, we want to tell you this: It's not necessary. It is not necessary for you to ever feel like you have to clean, heal or save anyone outside of yourself. You are here to be guided by your own inner guidance, to your own healing and your own clearing. And you then become a beacon of light. And it is the light that you generate that naturally encourages the healing of others. But taking responsibility for more than what is yours can create a level of heaviness that is not necessary. It is not necessary. It is not necessary. It is not necessary. Having said that, if something is in your experience, it is yours. If something is in your experience, whether it's because you have picked it up in a sponge-like way or it is already naturally emerging, arising from within you, it is yours. It is your responsibility then to clean it up. Whether you have picked it up as though the water from the sponge or whether it is arising naturally from you. So be clear with yourself about not feeling overly responsible for clearing, healing and cleaning anything that lies outside of yourself and bring your responsibility back to you. Not in a framework of lack of care for others, but in the framework of knowing that what you are responsible for is your responsibility and you do not want to usurp the responsibility or the power of others. It is not your job to clean up anyone's trauma, pain, illness. It is not your job to clear them. But as you clear things within yourself, you are much more likely to be a source of inspiration and light and growth and expansion for them. This sounds like a very subtle distinction, but it's incredibly important because the locus of power lies within each of you. And when you feel overly responsible for others, you are in effect energetically attempting to draw their power away and into you. It is the last thing that you would want to do. But when you look at the energetics of it, that is what you are doing. So we would encourage you to be really crystal clear and authentic and real and honest with yourself about what parts of what you are doing are your responsibility and what parts are not. And we will remind you that if you have drawn something into you, it becomes yours. It is then yours to clean and heal and work with. If that is the life and the path that you wish for yourself and we feel in you that you do not want to be burdened by trauma, you do not want to be burdened by heaviness. So if thinking of the generational impact is helpful to you, do that. But do not feel any sense of responsibility for cleaning up what came before or what moves forward. Feel a sense of responsibility for the cleaning up and clearing up of what is in you presently now. And also know this: you never need to go looking. You have noticed that circumstances and situations bring up for you what is ready to be worked on. So just be present with yourself. Just be clear with yourself. Just be clean with yourself and just be dealing with what is arising in the moment. And that will have ripple effects of healing as you move through different spaces in the environment around you and the hearts of those around you, if they will allow it. Some people will be inspired and uplifted by the process and progress that you make with yourself. Some people will be triggered by it because some people are not yet ready to take that level of responsibility for themselves. They would - particularly if you begin to be responsible just for you and not for others - some people will rebel against that because they would rather give away their sense of responsibility to others, including you. But be mindful that you help no one by taking responsibility for things that are not yours. You help everyone by taking responsibility for what is yours. We know that we took that on a tangent, but we felt that that was the message that was most important for you in this moment, feel free to ask additional questions.
Debi: It feels very relevant, actually, the reminder. So I do understand you clear... Is my understanding clear: what it reminded me of is that my responsibility to or the more I clear myself, the better, the bigger space I can hold as a container for others to do their own healing. So my responsibility is mine, just my healing and by the fact doing that...
Oron: Yes, that is correct. And we will add this: sometimes when people are conscious and aware and they're looking for responses in the outer world for their inner work and they're looking for signs from the universe, they can perceive a negative response as the universe saying don't go in this direction. We want to clear that up for you. There are people who are going to react to your growth and expansion in a way that is negative. It will feel negative. It will look negative. And that is not the universe saying, "Please don't work on your personal growth." That is the universe saying, "Let them be as they are. Free them. Don't fight them. Don't demand that they be happy about your growth. Allow them to be triggered if that is their response to it. Allow them to be inspired, if that is their response to it." Not taking on responsibility for more than is yours includes their reactions to you. Your responsibility is to live according to your values and then free yourself from the responsibility of others. That includes their reactions to you. If you are living according to your values, you will not be unkind because we feel that you value kindness. But you need to free them in order to really free yourself. We feel your desire for freedom, and that includes freeing yourself from the responsibility that you currently feel for the way that people respond to you; that is not your responsibility.
Debi: Thank you. So I have a question that kind of ties in with the responsibility and the sponging, is the... it's about resilience. Medha talked about it a week or two ago. And I feel I am re-entering the culture where I feel I do understand the language, but I don't quite understand it. And I lived in different ones and there's lots I don't like about what's going on. And I feel like I relinquish my responsibility to myself just to fit in or not to make waves. And that's not the best way of being for me. And I notice that I'm not as resilient working on myself as when I was in the world where I could be whoever I wanted to be, because I was separate from the influences I come from - from familial to the cultural context I grew up with. And coming back is not easy for me. And yet it's very, very - I feel it's incredibly important to - clear that. But I feel like I dip energetically and lose myself and forget myself and struggle to navigate, to kind of be within my core, within my centre and let anything else happen around me - even those negative reactions to who I am and how I see the world.
Oron: We wish to respond to what you have said. The reason you feel less resilient is because you have been sacrificing yourself in exchange for positive responses from others. That blocks your energy and it leaks your energy and it makes you tired and heavy, and whether you have experienced that yet or not, it will surface. It will make you resentful. It will not be productive for the relationships that you are trying to create for you to consistently silence or sacrifice or minimise aspects of who you are. We are not saying that you need to shove who you are in people's faces. That is also not productive because that is a way of resisting them also. So we return to the message we had for you earlier about freeing yourself and freeing them. Let them be free to not be pleased by what you are choosing. That is their right. You have no right to limit their right to have their own reaction to you. But what you are doing presently is you're attempting to control their reaction to you by attempting to control yourself. And you, dear one, know how much you crave freedom. You are putting yourself in a straitjacket to make someone else smile. But it's not a genuine smile because they are not responding to the authentic you anyway. No one wins from that. It is just that it feels safer to you to have them have that inauthentic smile than to have them have a scowl that moves in your direction. You need - if you wish, to free yourself deeply in them deeply and we feel that you do - you need to live, work, play, expand your self-acceptance. Right now, they are triggering in you the doubts that you have about yourself, the places where you do not love yourself. They are triggering connection to those parts of you. And that is not a bad thing because those parts of you need you to turn to them and love them and nurture them and encourage them the way that you wish that your parents and society had as you were growing up. Imagine this: if you had been deeply accepted in all ways throughout your life, imagine what that would feel like. Imagine the resilience. Imagine the confidence. Imagine the freedom, the authenticity of self. Imagine what that experience would be like. And we tell you that that is available and you are not dependent on other people realising your value and your worth in order to enact it for yourself. It is you that you seek that approval from. It is all aspects of you that wish the other aspects of you to approve of them, and that currently is not your experience; that is what needs healing. That is why you are back there. That is where the friction is hitting your wounds. That is why you feel like you need to be where you are; it is because deep down, you know that you seek freedom. You will only feel freedom after you feel safety. And you only feel safety, once you feel that self-love and self-support. Once you are deeply there for yourself, no matter what someone is saying about you, no matter what energetics they are throwing in your direction, if you love yourself, nurture yourself, encourage yourself, no one can make you feel unlovable. And that is what you are trying to avoid. You are trying to put yourself in a straitjacket, do the dance that appears to be required in order to not have people throw energetics at you that make you feel unlovable. The solution is not with controlling their reaction. The solution is addressing the parts of you that don't feel lovable now. We'll tell you a secret: they're very lovable. Those parts of you are very, very lovable. They are adorable. They are sweet. They have been protecting you. They have your back. They have got so many beautiful, delightful, delicious qualities that are not being brought to the surface right now because you misunderstand them and think them not worthy. They are the rebellious parts of you. They are the parts of you that don't wish to stand for how you are being treated or what you are doing to yourself. Those parts of you are deeply lovable. You just have a misunderstanding about them, that if you clean it up, it will give you the self-love, the self-worth, the safety, the freedom that you seek. Nothing else will give that to you. Nothing. And it is no one else's responsibility to give it to you. That is your responsibility. It is your responsibility. Yours and yours alone. And you can get assistance. You can get support. And some of the stuff that you do with Medha is helpful in the realms of that. And you can seek support from others and friends and people that love you but remember, all of that is only just support, because deep down, this is a dialogue between you and you. This is a process of acceptance and love between you and you. And no one can get in the middle of that. No one can do this for you. And this is our final message to you: we talk to you about responsibility because that is where there is currently a tangle that is stopping you from feeling the freedom that you wish. Follow the feeling of freedom. If you are walking in a direction that makes you feel bound, find freedom in it, find choice in it, reclaim the choice that you are making in all situations because you are currently making choices and then feeling bound. Remind yourself that they are a choice and if you need to make a different choice, then make a different choice. But freedom and responsibility are really important pathways to the expansion that it is that you seek, but responsibility of what is yours and the freedom of you and everybody else. Don't be responsible for anything that's not your responsibility. Develop your discernment so that you know what is and what isn't. And free yourself. And you free yourself with your own self-love your own self-acceptance, your own self-nurturing so that you are no longer willing to sacrifice yourself for the approval of others. We love you. We love you. We love you. Go well.
Debi: Thank you.
Medha: Ooooooh, that was intense.
Debi: I know.
Medha: Holy shit.
Debi: Yep, sorry.
Medha: No, no, it was fucking great. Alright, let me stop some recordings.
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